Poor Unfortunate Podcast: A Disney Podcast For Grown Ups
Poor Unfortunate Podcast is an award-winning Disney podcast for grown ups where Disney is what we do…it’s what we live for! Join hosts Conor Perkins and Caroline Aimetti for a heartfelt and hysterical journey through a cycle of four unique formats: the Rant/Rave, the Showdown, Tips and Tricks, and the infamous Wild Card episodes. We’re talking about the movies that make us sob, the songs that still slap, and the characters that we would fight (or fight for). With scalding hot takes, behind the scenes tales, and thoughtful conversations, Poor Unfortunate Podcast is the perfect blend of critical analysis and casual fun that will have you laughing, arguing back, and getting your fix of that grown up magic. New episodes every other Monday – beluga sevruga!
Poor Unfortunate Podcast: A Disney Podcast For Grown Ups
S4 BONUS: Changed For Good
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Beluga Sevruga! In this bonus D-Brief episode, Conor and Caroline are giving their thrillifying, (largely) unedited, frank analysis of 2025's box-office smash, Wicked: For Good. Go down the yellow brick road with them as they obsessulate over every detail that brought to life the emotional, epic conclusion of one of the most beloved musicals and formative books for our delightful duo. Grab your brooms and bubbles (and tissues) because it's time to be changed for good!
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Hello, and welcome to Poor Unfortunate Podcast, where today Wicked is what we do... it's what we live for! We're the two besties you never knew you needed. I'm Conor Perkins.
Caroline AimettiAnd I'm Caroline Aimetti. This is a Disney podcast for grown ups because we believe that magic gets better with age. Listener discretion is advised.
Conor PerkinsWelcome to all of our returning listeners and viewers. Thanks so much for joining us once again. And welcome to any new listeners or viewers. Thank you so much for hitting play. Please also remember to hit follow or subscribe wherever you're getting the podcast. And if you're on YouTube, opt in for notifications. That way you don't miss out on anything. And when we get to the end of the episode, make sure that you leave a comment, leave a written review, hit five stars. That way other people can find the podcast. We're suggested in search results, all that good, like algorithmy type of things. So yeah. All right, Caroline.
Caroline AimettiOkay.
Conor PerkinsWhat are you talking about today?
Caroline AimettiWe're talking about Wicked: For Good. And we're sad because we'll talk about it more later. We'll try not to go there now. But this very much feels like the end of an era of our lives. And so we're very sad about it. But before we get there, we have to gush about this movie. And so that's what we're gonna do for the next probably too long. But for those of you who are new to this, this is for you.
Conor PerkinsFor the next clock tick.
Caroline AimettiFor the next clock tick, we are here for you because we are obsessed.
Conor PerkinsMy God.
Caroline AimettiJust like we did last time. First of all, if you didn't listen a year ago to our first Wicked bonus, Wizomania, you can totally catch up on that. But just like we did last year, we'll give you a little bit of a rundown of how we consumed Wicked for Good this past weekend. Um, and what we have to say kind of about, I mean, we saw it multiple times. We'll talk about that and kind of our thoughts on the formats we saw it in, the ways in which we consume the movie in relation to Wicked Part One and all of those. So let's start there.
Conor PerkinsSo Spoilers, spoilers. Oh, yeah, be ahead.
Caroline AimettiOh my God. I wish I had, I wish I had the fabulous fan that Tori from the Oz Vlog has. This maybe this could be spoiler. I mean, this whole thing is gonna be a spoiler. So just like if you don't want to be spoiled, and I really just like we say with a lot of other things, I really recommend not being spoiled. Like, even if you're like, I'm a casual Wicked viewer, it's not a big deal. Just go see it first. You don't need to hear us talk about it first.
Conor PerkinsEven if you know the story, like we are both very familiar with the musical, and I wanted as few spoilers as possible for this because any iteration of it is going to be new. There's going to be new things. There's gonna be it's it, it's it's not just what happens, but it's how they do it that is interesting. So all the people out there who are like, how can there be a spoiler? It's like everyone's having like because we don't know how they're doing it because no one's made a Wicked movie before.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsSo be kind and considerate with your spoilers, people.
Caroline AimettiSpoilers ahead. This is it. This is it. Turn back now. Okay. So, much like we did last year, Conor and I saw Wicked together three times. Opening weekend. And then we each saw off more time with our families.
Conor PerkinsAnd I'm going tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.
Caroline AimettiYou are?
Conor PerkinsYes.
Caroline AimettiHell yeah. Hell fucking yeah. Um, I have at my corporate job, long story, but I'm in charge of like the music leading up to the big company wide meeting. And I like made everybody listen to Wicked this month. And the number of slacks that I logged back into on Monday of people being like, Did you see Wicked? Like, I saw Wicked and I want to talk about it. That fixed something in me that I think needed to be fixed. Um, so there that was a good thing. Yeah. Exactly now. I have done what I needed to do. So we kicked off. We decided to do Wicked basically the same way we did it last year because um, no notes really. So our first viewing was IMAX, which I feel like was the right choice.
Conor PerkinsAnd because I'm me and slightly psychotic, um, I made sure that we booked the same exact theater and the same exact seats that we were in for Wicked part one.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsAnd I think that was the right choice. It felt it felt like a full circle-y kind of moment.
Caroline AimettiThe one thing I think we both did say though is I wouldn't change it. But sitting in the same seats and having the same, you know, viewing experiences the first time set us up to fail is too strong of a phrase, but it's that's not what I mean. But this movie is so different from part one that we couldn't have known that we weren't going to replicate the experience of seeing the first part.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiBecause they're two, they're I mean, they're all one story, but they're two different different films, very different. Yes. So I think, I mean, obviously we loved it, we sobbed, we were overwhelmed. I mean, it was it was we handed out tissues. Yeah, we handed out tissues.
Conor PerkinsIf any of you are here listening or watching, because we handed out tissues and you were at our IMAX performance, hi. Thank you.
Caroline AimettiWe're so happy we shared that experience with you. It was a it was a good audience. It was like the audience was in it, but yeah, like our bodies were tensed for the entire two hours and 17 minutes. It was like really overwhelming. We talked about it until 3 a.m. in the Times Square Raising Canes.
Conor PerkinsYes, we did.
Caroline AimettiAnd then we were ready to go do it again the next day. So then the next day, we saw an afternoon screening in Dolby, which I will say last year when we saw it in Dolby, I was like, okay. This year it was incredible. And then seeing it in other formats, including like basically regular format later in the weekend, I sensed the difference immediately. Yeah. Um, that was great. And then we closed out our three viewings together with 4DX. Which there's no, there's just no substituting the 4DX experience of Wicked. I mean, for the fog alone. The fog alone for another very specific part. Should I just start talking about it now?
Conor PerkinsLet's just start talking about it real quick.
Caroline AimettiSo jumping ahead, I mean, we we have a light structure for this, you all, but it's it's light. Well, we have a lot to talk about. Um, we'll talk about like the moments that we can't stop thinking about, which this is definitely a part of for me. But spoiler. In "As Long As You're Mine", which is, I mean, coming from somebody who like needed it to be the world. I mean, I thought it was incredible. And so, like, truly, if it's coming from me, that's saying something. Um, the seats of the seats, like the bottom part of the seats vibrated.
Conor PerkinsVibrated. And literally before I said it, before it started, I was like, all I were like joking around. For "As Long As You're Mine", I'm like, I just want the seat to like thump on my butt while it's happening. And then it did.
Caroline AimettiI really had a moment where I was like, I'm in public. Like, what is happening?
Conor PerkinsThe seats were boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Caroline AimettiBut then there was also just like a light, like yeah. So needless to say, we recommend in 4DX. And it's funny because some of the, you know, with the flight and a lot of the more intense, like the tornado, so much of it in 4DX is so intense. And that was our third viewing in like 24 hours. And I was like, you know, I'm I'm tapped out, right? Like, I'm not gonna cry. This is more of like a sensory experience. It got me every damn time, every time.
Conor PerkinsI think honestly, my last viewing, the fourth viewing, it got me just as hard as the first one.
Caroline AimettiYes, me too.
Conor PerkinsI think I had like a curve of like slowly like getting better, and then it just like Yes. This last one, I was no good.
Caroline AimettiYes, yes. So we parted ways, and then I saw it in uh it was in a showcase theater. It was technically we were in the special theater. I think it was called RPX. I think it was called RPX. So I saw an RPX, which I really enjoyed. Um, but Conor went and saw the double feature.
Conor PerkinsI did. I saw, but it wasn't like the official double feature that's coming out to movie theaters, it was a double feature at my local drive-in theater. So lucky enough in Maryland that we still have a drive-in, and our drive-in theater screen boasts the largest screen in the United States. So I watched the double feature of Wicked and Wicked: For Good. Oh my god. And I have said this on threads, I will say it until the day that I die. I cannot impress upon everyone enough that this is how these films were meant to be seen. You can, of course, watch these films by themselves, but why would you when watching them together unlocks both parts in a way that I can't describe it. I like I can't describe it. This is, I think, one of the finest representations of duality in film I've kind of ever seen. The amount that both films reference each other in the cinematography, in the production design, in acting choices alone, it's completely insane. Um camera work, the ""Defying Gravity"" camera work during the Just You and I, Defying Gravity, where it's going around the two of them, and how that mirrors the exact same thing that happens when they're singing "For Good" together. And the camera work is exactly the same. The duality of the shots of both of both Elphaba walking out onto the balcony of the Emerald City Attic Tower and Glinda doing it. There's so much duality, and being able to watch one right into two, you get to appreciate all of it. It's so good. And I know a lot of people are saying, well, some people are saying, well, that means that it should should have been a single film then. And I'm like, you know, I don't, I don't know. But if making it a single film meant sacrificing anything that we got from both of these films, it wouldn't be worth it to me. I wouldn't I wouldn't cut anything from the first film, just as I don't think I would cut anything from the second film.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsIf anything, I might add to the second film a little bit more.
Caroline AimettiOh my god, absolutely. Say it could have been longer for me, but we're very biased when it comes to that. And and I don't want to live in any delusional dream world that people who weren't originally fans of this material would sit through a super long single film. They just wouldn't. We needed this momentum to build up from the first one. It just wouldn't, we would, but not everybody would. And so I wouldn't change it.
Conor PerkinsIt's kind of a thing where I think it's damned if you do, damned if you don't, because some people certainly have pointed out, like, you know, Le Miz has done it. They did it all in one film. And I'm like, true, but it was a long film. But we've also seen like a film like Into the Woods, where that's a two-act musical that they put it into one single film. And I think it was actually to the detriment of the film because it took such a it took such a drastic turn, which most musicals do in their second act. Act one is usually a very complete story that is, you know, about discovery and then making choices and all of that sort of thing. And then act two is about the consequences of those choices. So, you know, I I think that there was no right way of doing this. And I think that with what they chose to do, splitting this into two parts, I think ultimately it was the right move. And watching them together certainly is the way to do it because any complaints that anyone might have, myself included, about pacing issues in the second film, which I've heard from a lot of people, I can respect those pacing issues are almost completely resolved by watching both films together.
Caroline AimettiYeah, that's the thing. I'm sure that there's nothing we will say in this episode that like other people aren't saying, but I think it is worth repeating that this is the continuation of the same story. When the first time when when people text me and ask me how was it, first of all, I'm not gonna tell you because I just like want you to run a panel. Also, basically, unless they like cut all of the songs, I'm always gonna think it's amazing, pretty much. But also, I the one thing that I do say to people is just remember, it is it is a continuation, it is the fallout of all of the decisions that these characters made in the first movie. And interestingly, you just never know because I'm like, and I feel like at first I was like, that's something that maybe people who are, you know, really, really big fans of the musical, like we are, can can appreciate the most. And by golly, my dad has seen it on Broadway. He hasn't seen it on Broadway since 2005. It's been a really long time. He liked part two better.
Conor PerkinsI am seeing a lot of people who are enjoying part two.
Caroline AimettiHe walked out and he and he was like, he was like, I loved it. It was way better. I was like, wow, you just never know. I mean you never know.
Conor PerkinsIt certainly, if you're looking for uh one of the parts that has the emotional weight, like more emotional weight, obviously, act two, part two is where you're gonna want to be. But yeah, I think I think the mindset in which you go into this film is very important, knowing that, knowing that it is a continuation of the same story as opposed to a true sequel. Even us going into this, we had both watched the the first part the day before and then went into this. And the the time between even watching part one and part two, you can feel you can feel that length of time. So, yeah, again, as much as possible, I would recommend doing a double feature because yes, that is how it is intended to be seen.
Caroline AimettiI also, for both of us, this movie got better every single time, too. Yes, that was another thing. Look at us, we're insanely biased. But they we, like I said, we went to Raising Canes and we we talked about the movie until 3 a.m. And there were some things that we're like, oh wait, wait, but what about the we were we were we weren't picking it apart, but we were just like, huh? Yeah. It's just so I mean it's a it's a very emotionally overwhelming film, but also once shit starts to get moving in the latter half of this movie, it just it is nonstop and you're processing a lot of things at one time. So there was one moment that we viewed completely differently, that we interpreted in opposite ways, and it took a second viewing for us to actually understand what was happening in that moment. And these we are two people who know this show by heart.
Conor PerkinsSo and there are also other moments that have been left intentionally blurred and ambiguous about how it's there, so that each time you come to it, depending on what you are bringing to it, something new will be revealed, or so there will be something new for you to take away, which I think is one of the most beautiful things about live theater. And I think one of the things that is very, very difficult to capture or retain from changing live theater into a film performance. And I think that they have that ability for every single time you watch it, it to be slightly different. It does feel like every single time I watch this film, it is slightly different.
Caroline AimettiThe structure that we have set up is that we are first going to talk about the changes that were made for this film and how it differs from act two of the Broadway musical. I'm sure that will kind of meander into the other main thing we plan to discuss, which is just like what are the moments from this film that are just like living in our heads rent-free and always will. I'm sure there will be some overlap there, but just so you know, that is going to be the main structure of this episode because we could definitely go beat by beat. And maybe one day, you know, if we ever set up a Patreon, we'll just go beat by beat through this film and we'll never know. But we'll start, we'll kind of use the changes that were made for the film as our jumping off point of this discussion, and we will go from there.
Conor PerkinsWell, I think a great way that we can segue into it is just overall, I think that Wicked: For Good, for better or for worse, regardless of what you think, is extremely faithful to act two of the musical. I came away being like, that's act two. And act two of the musical, you know, a lot of people are like, it's kind of it kind of doesn't make as much sense. It feels people are will say, like, oh, it's kind of messy. And, you know, I don't necessarily fully agree with that assessment of act two of the musical.
Caroline AimettiI'm an act two girl, what can I say? But I really am.
Conor PerkinsBut it is extremely faithful to it. All of the beats of act two of the stage musical are completely hit and expanded upon in this in this film. So let's talk about some of the things that are that are differing from it.
Caroline AimettiI'm gonna try to talk about major things because I was gonna kick off with like literally the opening scene of this movie.
Conor PerkinsWell, I mean, let's talk about though. Let's start there because I think we can use that as something else that sort of does carry through this film as a whole in in some of the additional scenes that they've added. They've added a lot more action to it. They've added the way that this film opens, it feels kind of like a Marvel movie. And Elphaba is our superhero, supervillain kind of anti-hero thing. And honestly, I think what it does is it really grounds us into the stakes of what is happening, especially with the time jump, because there is a 12-tide turn time jump, which is done in the voiceover. So that's a year. Um, where in the stage musical it's two to five years.
Caroline AimettiAnd I keep hearing different things, even like someone online is saying that Jon M. Chu said it was longer than a year.
Conor PerkinsNo, Dana Fox just did an interview and she was like, No, it's a year.
Caroline AimettiI I struck I won't lie to you, I struggle with that a little bit because I'm like, so we have a bunch of college sophomore dropouts. What? What do you mean? I don't know about that. I just don't know about that. But whatever. Because that does sort of play into Nessarose like being Which is they that's a line, like she makes the joke in the stage show, I'm an unelected official, and like they took that joke out, so okay. But it also like I think it also helps, it helps Fiyero because he's not stringing Glinda along for like five years. It's you know, maybe they've been together for two years. I get it. I get it. Um, but I just love, and this is something that the stage musical couldn't allow because the obviously the one time in the stage musical when we see Elphaba fly is in "Defying Gravity". Seeing her fly around and seeing what she, we don't get to see what she's up to in act two of the musical. We she mentioned, like, you know, Nestro says the same thing she says in this film, like you fly around Oz helping animals, you know, that you don't even know you I've never even met. And seeing what she's up to, I think is just killer. I think so too.
Conor PerkinsSeeing what she's up to and then seeing how that is being spun by the propaganda machine of the Emerald City run by Madame Morrible. Yeah, I think is just really, really interesting. Also, the Yellow Brick Road as a concept being built.
Caroline AimettiBeing built then oh because that is not part of the musical.
Conor PerkinsIt is part of the book, the the building of the yellow brick road.
Caroline AimettiYes.
Conor PerkinsAnd I think that that was such a great way to again fuse both parts together because that is something that's introduced very quickly at the end of part one, and then we get to see it like and Glinda picks out yellow.
Caroline AimettiShe picks out that beautiful yellow for the road. She does. She does. Um, I, this is something that I wanted to bring up, and I guess maybe now's a good of a time as ever. One of the only disappointing experiences I've had with this film is how much of it was spoiled in the trailers. Conor and I have talked about this a lot. Um, so many delightful moments that there would have been nothing like experiencing it for the first time in the theater as part of the larger story were totally stolen from us. I'm just gonna be straight up.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiAnd so maybe that is why one of these next moments is a change from the musical and is also something that has been living in my head ran free, which is that we get a little reprise from Elphaba of "The Wizard and I". And I am so glad nobody told me I was gonna get that.
Conor PerkinsI am too. The new material that Stephen Schwartz has written in "Every Day More Wicked" is it's so good. Perfect.
Caroline AimettiPerfect, so good.
Conor PerkinsPerfect, perfect. We get we get the "What is this Feeling? reprise" with Glinda or now Glinda and her posse. And we get, which is fantastic because it's like that's the world that she's living in, still this like superficial what are other people thinking of me. And then Elphaba has her solitary thing, what's her big solitary, like I want moment, "Wizard and I", and that comes back. And then we have even these new musical moments.
Caroline AimettiYeah, it's perfect.
Conor PerkinsIt's very opening number, like establishing, like re-establishing where we all are in a really, really great way. We've got the ensemble doing their "Every Day More Wicked", we've got, and then we have our two heroes each having their moment and then coming back into the ensemble. It's really, really well done.
Caroline AimettiWhat Elphaba, the way that Elphaba phrases what she's saying in this reprise to me is so Elphaba. It's like when I start like and it's so interesting because it's she has still this like dogged belief that it's like I'm gonna get people to believe me. I'm gonna get it's I'm obsessed with that. And I also love that she says, like, when I do it, all Oz will applaud because later than when she's singing "No Good Deed", she's like, was I doing all of this for attention? Like so that people like would celebrate and applaud me. And I love that now we have that seed planted when we see her again for the first time for us, you know, in a year.
Conor PerkinsYeah, I agree. Oh, it's really good. And then also just the the accompaniment taking a minor turn on the when I stop the wizard, all Oz will applaud. Oh my god.
Caroline AimettiIt's I've been I have been like singing that under my breath and not stop. I will I'm obsessed with it.
Conor PerkinsSo I think while we're on the topic of new music and new new things that have been added into the music, yeah, let's talk about the two new songs that were written specifically for this. So we have "No Place Like Home", which is Elphaba's new song, and we have "The Girl in the Bubble", which is Glinda's new song. Personally, for me, "No Place Like Home" is more of the one that I gravitate to. However, watching Stephen Schwartz unpack how "The Girl in the Bubble" was written, there are so many layers into it that I think no one can really appreciate on first watch. And on first watch, I was like, I don't know if I really needed "The Girl in the Bubble". And then every single time I watched it, I'm like, nope, I changed my mind. I kind of need "The Girl in the Bubble".
Caroline AimettiOh my God.
Conor PerkinsBut before we go to "The Girl in the Bubble", I want to talk about "No Place Like Home", just because that's chronologically the first one that we get. I love this song so much. So, so much. And every single time I hear it, I love it more and more. Hearing Elphaba work through her thought process of why am I working so hard to save this place that doesn't want me? And having this among the animals and seeing how she interacts with them, how they know that she is trying to help them, but failing at it. And that even they are like, we appreciate what you're doing, but it's not ever gonna change anything. So we're gonna go. It's so interesting. And then to have this, this like this the opening part of it, which is you know, much more free-flowing, very contemplative, turn into this sort of like anthem of say there's "No Place Like Home" because this home belongs to us too. So inspiring. And also to know that this was written years ago. This song was written years ago, and it feels so top of mind right now. It's just, it's it really is, I feel like such a great resistance anthem.
Caroline AimettiAnd it's so interesting to me how I've read people say online of the song. So, like, oh yeah, you know, plot and character development-wise, I didn't need either of these new songs, and I'm like hard disagree. However, I might feel about where it stacks up in, like I said, I'm a huge act two lover. I know people think all the bops are in act one. I mean, there are so many bops in act one, but I love the act two.
Conor PerkinsHere's the thing I think there are more bops in act one, but I think all of the songs that carry the most emotional weight, they're in act two.
Caroline AimettiFar, far and away. And like two of my favorite songs ever are in act two. So it's like very, very weighted for me. When I first learned about these songs and I knew what they, first of all, just tell me that we're gonna have the phrase "no place like home". I'm I'm bought in.
Conor PerkinsWhich there are some people, there are some people out there who are already criticizing like using "no place like home", and they're like, if you're gonna bring that in here, like there's certain things, whatever. Oh, disagree.
Caroline AimettiIt's just supposed to be no.
Conor PerkinsBecause also, "no place like home", when Elphaba goes and visits Nessa, yeah, Nessa's like, what are you doing here? And she says there's "no place like home".
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsLike, so let's not act like this phrase is divorced from the musical. It's been there from the beginning.
Caroline AimettiRight. A hundred percent. I think if Elphaba is going to get another song in act two, it simply must be, Why am I doing this? It has to be like what what and when I heard the first little clip that they released on social media of like of Cynthia singing some of the intro of the song before it gets.
Conor PerkinsWhy do I love this place that never leaves? Oh, yeah.
Caroline AimettiI was just like, take my money. Yep. This is yep. And to me, what I like the most about this, interestingly, not that it's a competition between the two songs at all, but I actually am more of a girl in the bubble girl. Go figure. We'll talk about that too. What I love about this is it feels so like this is coming from Cynthia's Elphaba specifically. Like it, it's for her voice. It's for her voice.
Conor PerkinsIt's for her voice, but it's also for the Elphaba that we are telling in this story. Because we get to, in a film, see her interact with the animals in a way that we don't get to in the stage musical. Now we've got so many, like freaking so many Dulci Bear. We've got we've got a bunch of these animal characters that are so present. And then to have Dulci Bear return and be the catalyst for how this is God. Oh my god.
Caroline AimettiAnother thing. Thank God that wasn't spoiled for me.
Conor PerkinsThank God.
Caroline AimettiBecause I am obsessed with Dulci Bear. I'm obsessed with Dulci Bear. And yes, it was just so I didn't know if she was ever gonna come back. And yes, just having and her and her, the last thing that she says to Elphaba being like, Because I I know you're gonna keep fighting, because I know you.
Conor PerkinsBecause I know you. I happen to change.
Caroline AimettiPerfect.
Conor PerkinsListen, people perfect. And you know what? I have to tip my hat to Dana Fox because a lot of these expanded moments were because of her. She she was looking at the script and was like, I feel like we could use something here. Like, I feel like we we having that outside eye, having somebody else. I was gonna say, like, and then to have people like Stephen Schwartz and Winnie Holzman who are so game for it and are like, Yeah, yes, we value that. It it it worked so so well.
Caroline AimettiI love I love the fact that Dana has talked about hoping that her relative inexperience with Wicked would be an asset, and I think it just has been beyond. I think it was the fact that when she was offered the job, she hadn't seen Wicked and she couldn't really because it was the pandemic. So she like watched a lot of like slime tutorials tutorials and stuff. Um, I think that is such a like I think that's part of it too, is it's like, you know, we can sit here, having not been a part of the creative process of the film, any of us can, and be like, oh well, it's so obvious. Why didn't they call back to this? It's because we're removed from it. We're not lost in the sauce the way that these folks need to be to give us the incredible material that they did give us.
Conor PerkinsAnd there is so much in Wicked, in Wicked, the book, in The Wizard of Oz, in the world. We can't touch on all of it.
Caroline AimettiIt's impossible.
Conor PerkinsThat like I don't know how someone who is in it that deep can be removed enough to give us a script that is this good and so specific and charting these sort of like heartbeat moments of both of these characters. Because that's the other thing is they've really arced this in such a way for both Glinda and Elphaba that they've truly. Truly, are our two heroes moving us through this? Two heroes going about things in very, very different ways and how they are together in a way that I don't think the musical really does. The musical is very firmly like this is Elphaba's story in Act Two. Glinda falls to the background.
Caroline AimettiYeah. There's and it's just so interesting to think about how in the book and in the original workshops of Wicked the Musical, Glinda was a side character. So the evolution of what she has become is fascinating to me.
Conor PerkinsTo the point where right now Gregory Maguire is writing Glinda. A Glinda prequel for my Yeah.
Caroline AimettiAnd on that note, same thing that I said before. Absolutely, if if now it is the two the journey of these two women, of course, Glinda needs a come to Jesus moment. Of course that's what her song would be. When when people really try to say, and I've actually heard the case made more against Girl in the Bubble being useful plot and character development-wise, I could not disagree more. Of course, in this story, Glinda needs to sing through the realization that something has gotta give.
Conor PerkinsBecause that's our convention. That's how like our convention of a musical is we sing through these hard moments. And for her hardest, like one of her hardest moments, of course, she's gonna sing through it. I there's no doubt in my mind that "The Girl in the Bubble" works as a song emotionally for the character. I think if any, and I think it even works, it works great where it is. I think if there's anything in my mind that I would do is I would want to see "The Girl in the Bubble" moved just a bit after where it currently hits, after the Madame Morrible scene where she's told to shut up. Like I would love to see Glinda just sort of like That's interesting. Just sort of like putting her toe just slightly out, testing the waters, getting this huge blowback, and then making the choice to work through everything and then to pop the bubble. It's almost like she's pushing against the bubble for the first time. She gets the blowback, and then now she's like, I gotta pop this thing. I feel like I that's where I want it.
Caroline AimettiI would actually leave it where it is. And I've said this to you a hundred times because I can't stop thinking about it. And I I said to you after we saw the movie, I was like, I think all we need is an intro.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiBefore she catches herself in the mirror. That doesn't, that to me feels like the middle of the song, or the the at least the big like the beginning of the meat of the song. And lo and behold, I found her. There was an intro. There was an intro, and it said exactly what I feel like it needed, which is she was she's looking at the mob, she closes the doors, and she has like a couple of lines of like, okay, like I can keep doing what I've been doing, and I can pretend that I'm not seeing this. Like I can pretend this isn't happening. And then you look at yourself and you're like, no, I can't. Boom! That's perfect. Perfect. And like I, I really, this song is really becoming, it's got me good. It wasn't even the first time. It got me good.
Conor PerkinsEvery single time she is weeping through this.
Caroline AimettiWeeping, weeping. It's that overhead shot coming down. Oh Alice Brooks.
Conor PerkinsOh my god, the cinematography for this film, incredible.
Caroline AimettiOh my god.
Conor PerkinsThe PanaVision lenses that they've done for this film that were crafted specifically for Wicked and Wicked for Good that have never been used in any other movie ever. It all works so, so well. It does make it feel dreamlike. Like the cinematography work in "The Girl in the Bubble" is exquisite. It is absolutely exquisite. And you know that it's good because lay people coming out of the theater who don't really pay attention to cinematography are like, oh my god, that scene. How did they do that? And it's like, it was her and a doll and a lot of rehearsal.
Caroline AimettiAnd I think that's the thing about so much of this franchise. We can call it a franchise now, right? I mean, it's one story, but this franchise in so many facets from direction to cinematography, design, all of it, performances. These folks are at the top of their game and they make it all look way too easy. And we don't even realize that's what I've I'm so I so agree with you because that's what I'm realizing. They make the impossible seem like a given.
Conor PerkinsYeah, like the fact that Ari is running in real time to make an entrance just like she would on a stage.
Caroline AimettiLike is so actually, why don't we talk about that too? Why don't we talk about that scene, which is having Glinda be in "Wonderful"?
Conor PerkinsI think it was the right move.
Caroline AimettiI liked it.
Conor PerkinsI liked it a lot, and I yeah, that was one of the things that I think even seeing that in the promotional stuff, I was like, duh, of course Glinda's in "Wonderful". And it was, and then I think the addition of the scene that Jon was like, we need to have a scene right before. If Glinda's gonna be in "Wonderful", we need to have a scene before. Um, and I think Dana was another person who was like really instrumental in that. And she and she was like, if these are our two heroes, they're spending way too much time away from each other. So we need to get them back together as soon as possible to show how much they're missing one another before we separate them again. And having that scene of Glinda's wedding night and Elphaba showing up and moving the dialogue of the we can't all come and go by bubble. Oh, from being a retort to something that is charming between the two of them.
Caroline AimettiThat scene, first of all, obsessed with Glinda is alone getting ready for her wedding, except for her. People are like, oh, except for her animal friends, her animal servants, servants, her animal servants, okay? Amazing, love that. The fact that she has the popular flower, the pink popular flower, and then she takes it in the out before she greets Elphaba. And then that exchange when Elphaba is like careful your dress, and they're just looking at each other, and you see them be like, holy shit. Especially Elphaba, you see it on her face. Alfred's like, damn. And like, what are we doing? We live in two completely different, like, what do we even have in common anymore? Almost. Oh my god, that was so beautiful, so damn beautiful. I loved that so much. I did too. Cynthia, I can't right now. We'll we'll talk about it later. I because I'll never stop. Cynthia.
Conor PerkinsCynthia, a titan.
Caroline AimettiShe is really making so emotional. She just does such like a beautiful job.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiWith like, ah man.
Conor PerkinsShe had literally the we're talking about it now. Sorry, we're talking about it now. Cynthia Erivo had the impossible task of taking one of the most iconic fairy tale characters, iconic film characters, iconic Broadway characters, and mixing them all together, and then putting it through the eye of a needle for a film performance, which is a completely different other thing, while also putting her own spin on it. And she sticks the landing every single time.
Caroline AimettiAnd never mind that it's one of the most difficult things in musical theater. Yes. And then she's doing actual flying and stunts on top of it.
Conor PerkinsIf we're talking about people making it look too easy, Cynthia Erivo is the one who makes it look too easy.
Caroline AimettiThis is this is a role, yes, of course, on uh in one day on set, they're not performing the entire musical, of course. But this is a role that the actors who play Elphaba have to live like monks in order to make it happen. And it is, I don't even think it's a performance that should that can happen eight times a week. Like that's why the standby, like I think, I think just like Christine in Phantom, I think Elphaba should have a full-time alternate, but that's another story for another time. But Cynthia is singing and acting that material on a film schedule. She was sleeping for like five hours. It's just not, it's not even human. It's not even human. I don't actually know how she pulled it off, especially with a character like Elphaba. And I, oh my God. She, it's really like her and Idina are my dream Elphabas. I I've talked to you about this a hundred times. My favorite Elphabas. And and this isn't something that is 100% attainable in the Gershwin theater in New York. It's not, it's not attainable. I love a stoic Elphaba. They're my fave. Yes, I'm that's that's my flavor of Elphaba that is my favorite. And it's crazy because it's not even like same with Idina. It's like I stoicism is the best word I can find, but it's not that because both of their Elphabas feel deeply.
Conor PerkinsYes, deeply.
Caroline AimettiAnd I love how often Cynthia allows herself to shed tears and isn't like hasn't made Elphaba cold hearted or even overly, she's not surprised by a lot, like she's hurt, but she's not surprised by the way that she's treated and what goes down. And I love that. That is such a fine line to walk of like this like emotionally deep but reserved Elphaba.
Conor PerkinsBut all of the feeling is at the surface.
Caroline AimettiYes. And having that shine and equal a character that is naturally big and bubbly like Glinda, is so hard. It's so hard. It's hard to not get swept up in her energy level, and it's hard to match it in your own way. And she does it.
Conor PerkinsAnd I think it's because she chooses very specific places where it's like there is in her Elphaba, and we've talked about this many times. There is the stoic reserved bit. There is the I feel deeply, yeah, like there. I have I have such a strong want and desire. And then I also have like this strong sense of justice of what is right and what is wrong, that all of those are there. But then there is also like the suppression of the child that never got to be the child, uh-huh. And finding the places where that sort of naivety leaps out of her. And then you see it when she's holding that figurine of herself where she's like my favorite.
Caroline AimettiThat might be my favorite moment of the whole two films.
Conor PerkinsShe's like a kid at Christmas, and she's like becomes shy around the wizard because I can't. There's there's so much happening in the way that this character is being portrayed. And number one, Elphabas on Broadway, you can't do that. Like you can't.
Caroline AimettiYou can't you have to go more gawky and exasperated because it's the only the Gershwin theater. I've sat in the last row of the Gershwin Theater. You might as well be in New Jersey. It would never work. It would never work.
Conor PerkinsNot to mention the fact that like you're not really allowed to explore the character all that much.
Caroline AimettiWe we could do a whole I am fast. Oh my god, I've listened to too many interviews. I've probably listened to every single episode of Sentimental Men shout out if you need more Wicked content. And like you are very limited in what you can do. It's Wicked, like a lot of other shows, it's no shade. It's it's corporate. It's they've got to keep it running and keep it consistent, which is also a union issue. And so you can't go out there making up riffs you want to do, making out of the box. You can't. You can't do it. Um, so obviously, I want like we're dealing with two completely different animals here. And it's so funny how like I know that. As someone obsessed with Wicked, I know that. But how it took me a minute, speaking of seeing this multiple times, for a moment, like "As Long As You're Mine". "As Long As You're Mine" let is the center of my universe. I mean, I don't even think I'm exaggerating. "As Long As You're Mine" is It's a poor island of one of my, it's it's an island of personality.
Conor PerkinsIt's blue diamonds on a green field.
Caroline AimettiIt was like our Wi-Fi password when we lived together. Like Elphaba and Fiyero are like my ship of all ships. "As Long As You're Mine" is one of my favorite songs ever, it like it's changed everything for me. Like, I whatever, I'm like in my 30s now, none of the shit matters anymore, right? Like when I got to sing it in like a Broadway review, fully fell in love with the guy that I was singing it with because I was just like lost in the fucking sauce. Like I was in it. Because I was like, I can't believe I'm finally doing this. Anyway, as someone who loves it on Broadway and is very accustomed, first of all, is obsessed with the more R-rated nature of the book, knew we weren't going to get that. On stage, it's very steamy. It's just a lot of feeling each other up, looking into each other.
Conor PerkinsYeah, they are all over each other. All over each other, hands, hands, hands.
Caroline AimettiYes. And I never thought too deeply about how it was going to happen on film because I'm like, Jon M. Shu's got this. Whatever. I I never thought about the fact that, like, yeah, it it can't even be super similar because you can't stare at each other and touch each other for four minutes on film. And so I I'm talking about this because Cynthia's Elphaba is just moves so seamlessly into that song. Because first of all, when Fiyero is like, I'm going with her, and both Glinda and Elphaba say, What?
Conor PerkinsShe like whispers it, you almost can't even hear it because it's she is in such disbelief because it is something that she has always wanted and never allowed herself to even like imagine could actually happen.
Caroline AimettiYes, and like to the point where they're walking away, they're alone for a minute, and Fiyero is clearly trying to already kiss her, which I'm obsessed with. They haven't even gotten out of the palace, and he's like, Let me get some of that. And she like just keeps going.
Conor PerkinsAnd she like puts distance, and then the dichotomy, I was watching Jon M. Chew talk about this scene. Me too, me too.
Caroline AimettiI mean, I could listen to him talk about this scene.
Conor PerkinsWhere he was talking about how active Elphaba is in her lyrics of like, kiss me too fierce, they hold me too tight. And he's like, But how do you build tension?
Caroline AimettiYeah, he's like, You can't come out of the gate. He's like, You can't do that.
Conor PerkinsHe was like, So, to then take that and pull her away from it and make that an introspective thing of these are the things that I want. It just highlights the piece of Elphaba that we were talking about, of where she wants so deeply, and all of those things we can see in her, but she's not letting other people see it. And it's leaping out.
Caroline AimettiTheir first moment of closeness happening in the mirror. First of all, ha ha. Second of all. No, second of all, I mean, it makes so much sense.
Conor PerkinsThey're not even on each other. Like they're like, he's just like in her like in her hair and her neck.
Caroline AimettiAnd I'm like, just smelling her.
Conor PerkinsI'm like, they're not kissing or anything. Like, nope.
Caroline AimettiBut it makes so much sense to me why. Again, part partially because I'm sure right to the left of this mirror are the propaganda posters that she's saved. It makes so much sense to me. People are like, well, Elf was just walking away from him. It makes so much sense to me. She what she's confronted with her reflection and what everyone else says about it. And then there's this guy who she loves behind her feeling it, and she can't believe it. How but how like I would blame her.
Conor PerkinsYeah. And it's just like, I need a minute. And that's liter like that's literally what she says. She says, I need help believing you're with me tonight. Like it's it's almost just like you're picking a different piece of the of her lyric to influence.
Caroline AimettiYou're all lying, lying. Okay. If you're trying to tell me that you haven't had a moment with someone that you're really into and you wanna, you want to get down, and you're like, I'm gonna like change to the outfit, but I can't bring myself to like fully do this because I'm scared.
Conor PerkinsYeah. And it's also like, I have a bunch of like cringy things in my house. Let me just take a step back and see how they're reacting to the things.
Caroline AimettiRight. Give her a minute, okay? And also let's talk about the fact that, and I'm sure that different Elphabas have different opinions about this. It seems to me like she's maybe never done this before. So, like, pardon me if she's not like immediately all over him, even though she wants to be, and even though I want them to be. But part of what I enjoy in media is like restraint, the yearning, the restraint, the tease. Like I have learned a deep, deep lesson, and I thank you, Jon M Chu. Like, thank you. I don't need everybody to be making out at all times to be like this is it. And I then, because it is allowed to build, I think my favorite part of the song, it probably would have been them flying, but that was spoiled so so early on.
Conor PerkinsAnother thing of marketing, giving us too much. We didn't need it.
Caroline AimettiYou guys, if I had seen them float together for the first time, seeing the movie, I would have passed away. I would have lost my shit. And I'm kind of sad that I didn't get that. But I love then because it has been allowed to build, when they finally start walking out of the treehouse together before they float, the joy and like the grins on their faces and like the abandon for a minute, because we're not in like deep, like sexy territory, they're just so happy for a moment. And God, we need that in this movie because it's all downhill from there. It is all downhill. And then they end kneeling in an homage to the Broadway show. I mean, what more? Could I always get more of this? Always, but like in this context and in this rating and in this film, what more could I ask for?
Conor PerkinsHer delivery of the laugh into the "it's just for the first time, I finally feel wicked," which is such a trap of a line in the stage, like because it has such the ability to fall in a false way and just feel like you're saying the name of the thing.
Caroline AimettiAnd the fact that they're kissing, and then like they both laugh, and like Fiyero's laughing too. And he's like, What? Like what?
Conor PerkinsIt was it was perfect, and honestly, it was perfect.
Caroline AimettiAnd we and I had talked to Conor about this line before we saw the movie, and I was like, Conor, like I need I need this line to be perfect, and he was like, It's it's going to be perfect. And as soon as she said it, you grabbed me, and I was just like, I was like, Yeah, they did it. They they did it because it felt like such a tribute to the way that Edina originally because it's hers, hers was so much like that of just like being laughing and being like, it's this like it's this private moment.
Conor PerkinsYes, and it's it's kind of that thing of like when you are comfortable, when you are with someone that you trust, you indulge yourself those moments of like kind of cringe. And that's what she does, where she's just like, I'm letting it, I'm letting it out, I'm letting someone else see the deep feelings that I have, however ridiculous they might even be.
Caroline AimettiYes, yes, and the build of all of it into that really because you know, Alfred Ben Fiyero don't get a ton of time. And in this version of the story specifically, more so, even though a lot of it is the same from the stage show, I think in this version of the story specifically, you really need to believe that this is true love between the two of them and they must be together. Otherwise, her leaving Glinda in the relationship we've created in this film just doesn't, it's it doesn't make total sense. And I think because the song was allowed to build in that way and she was vulnerable like that at the end of it, you're like, I've seen this relationship grow over the course of three and a half minutes. These are two people that need to be together.
Conor PerkinsYes. And I would also just say, like, having seen the double feature of it, you do get to appreciate how much more Fiyero and Elphaba have together, like little moments that they have together that solidify this being like an actual love. From the scene, from their introductory scene to the little moments that they have in dancing through life of like he sees her in the library and waves, and she's like over it. From him and Ozdust, that's it. Yeah, from him and Ozdust witnessing her dancing from the train platform. Like there, people who are like this romance feels like it's coming out of nowhere. I can kind of appreciate where you might see that if you're going in just to part two, really not having a recollection of part one. But again, this is this is a case for writing part one into this. It's it's fleshed out more than many romances that you get in cinema. Like it's there. I agree.
Caroline AimettiAnd yet I was thinking about how I'm like, I can't believe I'm still so obsessed with this pairing. I mean, I've been obsessed since like 10. I'm in my 30s. How does that even work? And I was thinking about like, you know, when I was younger, I was into, I was definitely into the idea of like, you know, it's like the hot guy, the nerdy girl, someone seeing you in a different way than other people see you. That was what resonated with me when I was younger. And then, you know, as I'm getting into like my older teens, my 20s, I'm like, oh, forbidden love, obsessed. Seeing it as a as a fully grown adult, I'm like, oh, this is true love because he will put himself on the line for her to the death.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiHe will give up every piece of safety, privilege, all of it in order to protect her, in order to have her. Yes.
Conor PerkinsIt's so good.
Caroline AimettiIt's so good. I'm so sorry.
Conor PerkinsI think we need to move on from "As Long As You're Mine" because otherwise we could probably do an entire episode just on "As Long As You're Mine".
Caroline AimettiI will never move on from "As Long As You're Mine". Let's move on. Let's talk about Nessa and Boq. How about that? And like "Wicked Witch of the East" and all of that. We again, another thing that we knew was going to be different in advance, just because we knew that Marissa Bode had had a hand in changing the, you know, Nessa's ultimate wish in the stage musical is I don't want to be in this wheelchair anymore. I want to be able to walk. That's gonna fix everything. And Marissa Bode's like, no, absolutely, 10 out of 10. So I was always excited for how they were going to change that. And then again, we saw how they were going to change it in the marketing materials.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiWhy?
Conor PerkinsWe didn't need to.
Caroline AimettiYeah, we didn't need that. Nope.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiSo we knew that was coming. Um, it was still very enjoyable to find out that what she's looking for is to feel the way that she felt in school, back at the Ozdust. I mean, relatable. That's relatable. And now everything that Elphaba does being so tied to not only gravity, but also the bringing in the very heavy and important theme of your heart's desire. Bringing we have we touched on it in part one with Glinda writing, you know, I hope you get your heart's desire. But now it's like, and this became a part of the conversation online as it pertains to the slippers. Because people are wondering, okay, how is Dorothy gonna get home?
Conor PerkinsAnd it's like they're enchanted, they are imbued completes the plot hall.
Caroline AimettiPut it on, yeah, put it on, and you can have access to your heart's desire. Love it.
Conor PerkinsYeah, I think that was so cleverly, cleverly done. And I think the addition of a scene with her really take or really taking the Nessa scene in the show and breaking it apart a bit, so that we see Boq and Nessa, we see him make a first ask to leave, and then we get to see some of the ruthlessness of Nessarose, which we don't get to see in the stage musical at all.
Caroline AimettiThey reference it, they just reference it in a passing line.
Conor PerkinsYeah, you don't you don't get to see any of the consequences of it to see it and then have Boq at the train station, all of that interaction, then him back in her in her care new costume and everything. I think that really beefed up her her moment, hers and Boq's in a way that was really, really meaningful, so that the trajectory of both of those characters, you know, they just had a little bit more to arc, you know?
Caroline AimettiYeah, and it's so interesting. I think the the the other change that's interesting is what we established in part one, which is Elphaba and Neseros being adamant that people don't help Neseros. She's completely comp, she can do everything on her own. In the stage musical, part of the song of Wicked Witch of the East, Neseros things all to Elphaba, all of my life have depended on you. How do you think that feels? And obviously that doesn't work for this version anymore. So I I thought it was really interesting that the change was Elphaba saying, But you don't want me to help you.
Conor PerkinsAnd then her saying, but I do now. And honestly, the way that she says it, I'm like, because it's there's an anger to it, and the anger is directed at Elphaba, but also like at herself.
Caroline AimettiYeah. And it's almost like if she had if she had read it like, but I do now, you'd be like, Oh, okay. But I love that she emphasized now because it's also like it's a little bratty.
Conor PerkinsIt's bratty.
Caroline AimettiIt's like, well, I do now.
Conor PerkinsWhich is something that is very true for that character. We see it just like the way that she speaks to Elphaba, where she's just like, I when Elphaba was like, I shouldn't have sprouted off like that, and she's just like, no, you shouldn't have. And like she does it in a kind way, but like even her don't say another word about Glenn, like she she tends to be down on the side. She shuts her down all the time in a way that it makes sense that this character would then get to a point where she's saying, I want help now, and you're not here for me. Like, what the fuck?
Caroline AimettiAnd I would have been down with it was perfectly fine as dialogue, but I would have been totally down with that being musicalized. But I actually missed it in the strangest way, like kind of like a prelude to the rest of the song.
Conor PerkinsBut they kind of changed that to the that night at the Ostas. Yeah. Because then that becomes the the Wicked Witch of the East theme that carries through.
Caroline AimettiAnd how, man, I think I mean, I know this music like the back of my hand, but one of the earliest pieces of the score that you could get online was Wicked Witch of the East when she when she is floating. Didn't put two and two together that that's the music from the Ozdust Ballroom. Didn't realize. And then I was like, oh my god.
Conor PerkinsBrilliant. Brilliant.
Caroline AimettiBrilliant. And another thing that Jon M. Chu had always been um teasing was like this kind of following the universal, you know, tradition of monster movies, and now seeing Ethan Slater's performance as Boq spoiler, the Tin Man. Yep.
Conor PerkinsYeah, that was full the shining coming through with that act. Terrifying.
Caroline AimettiLike terrifying. And it's like, and I just love when he's got basically all the same dialogue as he and and singing parts as he does in the stage show, but just actually taking things literally that's in this text that really is just so good that you can like to me, it's like much in the same way that you do with Shakespeare of like literally, what is this character saying and what does that actually mean? This guy has no heart. How is someone without a heart going to act like that?
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiHe's scary AF.
Conor PerkinsScary AF. Ethan Slater fucking fucking killed it.
Caroline AimettiKilled it.
Conor PerkinsI think if I could do anything, I would add another Nessa scene, or even add Nessa to like a moment, like maybe she's called into the Emerald City, and like we see her at the celebration in um Everyday More Wicked or whatever. Like she's there, like she's been brought there, and she's got like the threat of like the wizard and Morrible like over her, or even if like she's there at thank goodness, which they've now placed in Munchkinland at the opening of the Yellowbrick Road.
Caroline AimettiRight. Why wouldn't she be there?
Conor PerkinsShe could be there, but then that would mess up Boq finding out about Fiyero's engagement. So that's why they weren't there.
Caroline AimettiGot it. Right. But I would love to see her, because we we have gotten rid of the line from the musical, I'm an unelected official. I would love to see her struggle with being forced to do this, feeling the pressure to go along with things to prove that she isn't like Elphaba. Like, that's good shit. It's good shit. It's good. And like, uh, the other thing living in my head rent-free, is going back to Boq, the Tin Man, is him looking up at Glinda during March of the Witch Hunters. Pardon me.
Conor PerkinsThat's one of those things where it's like they've left a moment in there for us as an audience that whatever we're bringing, each time we watch it, we can decide. Does she recognize him? Does she not?
Caroline AimettiLike, is there something in between where she's like, I feel like I know that?
Conor PerkinsYes. Is there is there something in him where it's like he's is he recalling what it feels like to have a heart in looking at her? Or is the way that he's looking at, does it feel nothing anymore?
Caroline AimettiSuch as rage.
Conor PerkinsLike, yeah, what there's so many reads.
Caroline AimettiIt's so somebody online pointed out, and and again, this movie is so brilliant. Maybe we can just find things that they were like, oh, I we weren't even trying to do that, but that works too. In Wizard of Oz, the Tin Man sings, Picture Me a Balcony, and like talking about like calling up to a woman on the balcony. Hello.
Conor PerkinsBye-bye.
Caroline AimettiHello. Oh my. That and once I read that, I was like, this moment is ever is everything.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiAnd it just like Tori from the Oz Vlog made a really great video talking about just like, oh my, in this core group of friends, like we could have avoided all of this heartache. All of their fatal flaw is just that they can't be honest with each other.
Conor PerkinsYes.
Caroline AimettiAnd it was just like felt very distilled in that stare.
Conor PerkinsWhich low key makes me so sad that they cut the scene between Boq and Elphaba at the train station, where he literally says, Oh, I misunderstood. I thought we were being honest.
Caroline AimettiA hundred percent.
Conor PerkinsWhere it's like, and then he's like, okay, our friend group, we're not being honest with each other. We're not honest with each other. And it literally leads to the downfall of every single one of them.
Caroline AimettiYep. And then I really enjoy that Nessero says to Elphaba, like, I know why you're going to the wedding. You're trying to, you're trying to get to Fiyero. And it might feel a little bit like, did people pick up on that? Elphaba's very subtle. But if we had kept that scene, it would have been like, no, everybody in the friend group has picked up on some sort of vibe, which is then interesting because it just would tie even more into Glinda's, like, I hear nothing, I see nothing. I'm pretending this isn't happening. If everybody else in the group is like, you're into Fiyero.
Conor PerkinsOof.
Caroline AimettiYeah, that scene, bring it back. Director's cut.
Conor PerkinsDirector's cut. Director's cut. One six-hour long film. That's I love it. The one thing that I want to talk about, because this also doubles as like something that is always on my mind is the cyclone scene.
Caroline AimettiOh, yeah.
Conor PerkinsWe don't get this at all in the stage musical. It's always implied that it happens, but it's never outright shown. Going from "As Long As You're Mine" into that shot of those curtains lifting up. And that I could watch Michelle Yeoh.
Caroline AimettiSo good.
Conor PerkinsSummon Cyclones forever. It is exquisite. The visuals, everything that ILM, Industrial Light Magic, has done, living my brain rent-free is the image. It's the wide shot of the storm clouds gathering over the Emerald City. And then you see the very, very thin wisp funnel of the cyclone start to form, and then touch down and just and listen, y'all, that in 4DX was the shit. Also, watching the funnel move across to Munchkinland, like starting in the Emerald City and cutting across the tulip fields towards Munchkinland of like it is very targeted. Like it's not just she summoned it in Munchkinland. She summoned it there and she sent it that way.
Caroline AimettiSo fucking good. Also enjoy again, something we can do on film, which is that Elphaba's visions are becoming very like full sensory experiences. So she like is they're getting stronger. The only note that I have about them is that Elphaba's visions are first person, except for the one. I just don't like when things get spoiled in this, I guess, because she has a vision of the final exit of her and Fiyero from Oz. Number one, I wish we hadn't seen that because if you know the story, you know what it was. And obviously I know it's coming, but I don't want to see what it looks like because I didn't know we were gonna, they were gonna be going into the desert. They could have gone through the tunnel. I didn't know where they were gonna go. I don't want to see it. I don't. But also, why was she seeing that vision in third person? All of her other visions, like when she sees Dr. Dillamond in the cage in in part one, she has first person visions. And I love that. She like is like inhabiting either herself or somebody else. Why was she seeing that from afar? I didn't, it didn't make sense to me. And it kind of just spoiled the visual, which is one of the final visuals of the whole movie.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiYou know, but yes, I love that she's getting this like full sensory vision of that.
Conor PerkinsOh, and then Nessa just screaming for Boq, trying to bring him inside.
Caroline AimettiYeah. I also really enjoyed the fourth time that I saw it. I was seeing it with less of a it's fucking ridiculous. Like it's a normal thing. I know.
Conor PerkinsThis movie hasn't even been on a week. And I the fourth time.
Caroline AimettiYou know what really hit me the fourth time? Um, I was seeing it with a more of a it wasn't like the die hard fans crowd that we were with in the city. I loved the immediate when you cut to the windows of Dorothy's house and hearing people be like, like, oh my god, it's happening. Like Dorothy's here. Yes.
Conor PerkinsAnd then also I love because I was watching the Oz Vlog, Tori, and she was like, the fact that the curtains are the same blue gingham, which would have been very period appropriate of someone in a poor home that they would use the same fabric as their curtains to also make the dress brilliant.
Caroline AimettiYes. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Yep.
Conor PerkinsAny other new things added to it that we should talk about?
Caroline AimettiWell, I think we have to talk about, let's talk about the Grimmerie and like magic and like baby Glinda. If we can, if we can make it.
Conor PerkinsWe can.
Caroline AimettiOkay.
Conor PerkinsBaby Glinda.
Caroline AimettiBaby Glinda again. See, this is another thing.
Conor PerkinsThis is another thing that you really appreciate in the double feature in the duality of it, of how the flashback to young Elphaba happens more or less at the same exact time in the first film that the flashback to our other hero, young Glinda, happens in the second film. Just like beautifully done, reveals some new things about the character. Again, things that I think a lot of Glindas on Broadway and the West End and national tours have tried to imbue into their Glindas or given their backstories to motivate certain things, but of this conditioning that she has received, not out of harm or any sort of ill intent, but from a parent who sees their child wanting something so much, but it's just not for them. And then redirecting them and being like, everyone loves you, and that's all you'll ever need. Like watching the frustration, the heartbreak of that child be like, I want to be magical, and I'm not.
Caroline AimettiEvery time she says that, I am no good.
Conor PerkinsBecause that was all of us.
Caroline AimettiYes.
Conor PerkinsIt was all of us. That was That was all of us. That was me at the freaking Epcot Tapestry of Dreams parade, believing with my whole heart that when I made that wish, it was actually gonna come true and it was magic.
Caroline AimettiOh, a hundred percent. And then even and now I've seen a lot of people, like actors, resonate with this because now as an adult, yes, for me it was like I believed magic was real and I just wanted to be magical, but now it's like it's just like the dream I want to be, yeah. Like I want to be this like naturally talented, amazing person, and it feels like I'm not.
Conor PerkinsWhere it all comes easy for me and it feels like I'm not, and I'm not, and I have to for that hurts.
Caroline AimettiIt hurts, it hurts.
Conor PerkinsAnd then like to see all of your friends like believe it and then have someone comfort you and just be like, okay, well, there's a way that we can look at this and just sort of like, how do we reframe this? And then you're just like, but it doesn't take away what I feel, yes, and then that reframing becomes an identity in and of itself, where you're like, I'm gonna push down the thing that I want and go whole hog into this other thing to cover up how deeply I want this thing. And I'm like, and that is the character of Galinda slash Glinda. She is so at odds with wanting something so deeply and genuinely, and that is like in the first film when she was like, and it is my intention to study sorcery. Like you can't.
Caroline AimettiShe says it's my heart's desire.
Conor PerkinsThat's what she wants. And when that doesn't happen, it activates something in her of okay, well, if I can't have that, everyone will love me, and that'll be enough.
Caroline AimettiYeah, and I'm gonna try to have literally everything else if I can't have that to fill that hole.
Conor PerkinsAnd what ends up breaking it is Elphaba gives her her heart's desire in the first film when she makes that decision to make Madame Morrible train Galinda with her, she's giving Galinda her heart's desire. And it's like she's the only person actually that has ever believed in Galinda's possibility of being able to do real magic. It's really, really, really beautiful of like how much Elphaba, you know, doesn't really, she doesn't really give a shit whether or not Glinda can do magic. But she's like, if you want to, I'll believe in your ability to want to do it, as opposed to other people in her life who have told her, Yeah, well, if but if you don't have it, let's just find something else to do.
Caroline AimettiMm-hmm. And that's why another line that has been living in my head, rent-free, is when Elphaba gives her the Grimmerie at the end and is like, you gotta take this now. And she's like, Well, you know I can't read it. Yeah, you know I can't read it. And the way that Ari says it is so full of like shame. It's shame, yeah. It's sadness. And a lot of people believe that that admission is actually what could potentially be allowing Glinda to have access to the again, depending on how you read the final shots of the film. If you believe that part of the reason that the Grimmerie is opening is because of Glinda's own alignment with like her spirit and her decision to actually be good, if you if you read it that way, her admitting to her shortcomings and being honest is part of what allows the Grimmerie to open for her.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiAnd that's like that's good.
Conor PerkinsBut then also Elphaba's response, which is you'll have to learn. Where it's like, great, so it doesn't come naturally to you. Fine, you can learn it, which is also kind of Elphaba's argument about the whole, you know, being a part of a resistance or whatever. If it doesn't come naturally to you to resist, to get on the broom at the end of "Defying Gravity", that's okay. But that doesn't excuse you from having to learn to do it. Like you still have to learn. We have to, yeah, we have to change things. We can't let good just be a word.
Caroline AimettiAnd that and that's why I love with the Grimmerie flipping open.
Conor PerkinsYeah, let's talk about that.
Caroline AimettiYeah. First of all, I mean just like the whole idea of like, are they have they always been connected by the Grimmerie? Like it's this two book book, you know?
Conor PerkinsLike duality people.
Caroline AimettiAgain, like it's is there something because listen, the prophecy says there will come one with a power to read the Grimmerie again, but it's like this story about these two wise ones. But then it that's why it's like I I love every single read of the Grimmerie flipping open at the end.
Conor PerkinsI love that it's Glinda finally is aligned in her spirit and aligned, and now she is going to be able to magic and she's the most authentic version of herself in a way that like you could make the read that when Glinda finally becomes the most authentic version of herself, she's her pinkest that she's been, and all of that, and like, and that uh allows her to open it in the same way that like Elphaba has never not been able to be authentic because it's not been afforded her because of what she looks like and everything like that. So, of course, the grimmary is gonna open immediately for her because she can't be anything other than herself. Like, that's a great read on that moment, and I love that read.
Caroline AimettiI also was reading, again, probably overthinking it, but the way that Cynthia said for both of us in the stage show, I'm like, for me and you. She leaned in and looked at her in a way that she was trying to be like, for me and Fiyero, you have like it's up to you now for both of us.
Conor PerkinsOh.
Caroline AimettiTo me, it felt so much like the two of us need you to take it now. Not just me and you.
Conor PerkinsSee, I I still got the like me and you, like for both of us.
Caroline AimettiShe like leaned in and looked at her like, I'm never gonna tell you, but I'm gonna hint it at you.
Conor PerkinsI did get that where it was like, you know, this is my clue. I'm giving you a clue.
Caroline AimettiI'm giving you a clue.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiYeah, because it's so painful for her, as she says later, to not be able to tell her that she's like, I'm trying to tell you.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiBut anyway, back to the grimary flipping open. I love the read that it's like Elphaba is giving it over to her. And that's kind of what's happening there. I love that it's Elphaba being like, I'm trying to send you a message that I'm here. I'm okay.
Conor PerkinsYes. Yeah, I really like that one because there are some people, there are some people who are like, Oh, but there is no rainbow in the sky. No, there the rainbow is in the sky when she when she's walking up there. You could say maybe the rainbow is Elphaba sending the rainbow because it appears in the western sky because the sun is is setting, and that's the same place that Elphaba flies off to at the end of "Defying Gravity" from the same shot. And if Elphaba is on one side of the rainbow and Glinda's on the other, that means that Elphaba has gone further into the desert through the west of the Vinkus. So she left Kiamo Ko and continued to head west. So it you could say maybe the rainbow is Elphaba sending a sign, or you could say maybe the Grimmerie opening is the sign. I like the thing because there's also there's after the Grimmerie opens, and you get Ari's amazing sort of like shock and awe, and so many emotions running through her face, where I feel like there's even a piece of it of her being like, I've never seen this open like this for anyone except Elphaba, like not even Madame. It's never opened on its own before for someone. I like that read, but then it's also justified by the way when it cuts back to Elphaba, she gives this sort of like smirk, like smile, and then turns back to Fiyero and walks off, like almost as if she did something.
Caroline AimettiYeah, and I'm because some people read it as like she did, and that was her being like, I'm disconnecting myself from it. Now she's got it. I'd like to believe that she can ever and will always be able to communicate things. Again, this two-piece book will always be able to do that. And then that was her moment of being like, I'm still here. You have to learn. Yeah, open up the book, girl, get to it. You can do it. Like, yeah, you gotta learn. You gotta start somewhere. And I'm almost like, what if there's the and I don't obviously like Glinda not being able to do magic is a key part of the story. I don't believe that she can really. However, who's to say that the rainbow doesn't come from her in some way? You know, like when she's feeling deeply, because in both of the times that it appears, she's feeling deeply. She's wanting something so, so badly. Just like Dorothy so badly wants to go over the rainbow. What if it's just manifesting in a way that she doesn't even realize? Which she's so badly wanting Elphaba. She's so badly wanting to be able to do magic. What if she made the rainbow?
Conor PerkinsYeah, maybe.
Caroline AimettiYou know?
Conor PerkinsBut I do think one of the things that's really, really cool is if you look at what spell it opens to.
Caroline AimettiGod bless the internet. God bless the internet. I mean, seriously, y'all. Seriously.
Conor PerkinsBecause uh so good. People, I God, I love them. I just love fans. On one of the on one of the copies of the Grimmerie, I believe one of the notebooks or something, there is a there's like an alphabet key of the symbols and the markings. Someone has taken that and they have taken freeze frames of different spells that the book has opened to and translated the spells. And y'all, they all are full ass spells in English, the transformation spell of the the flying monkeys.
Caroline AimettiOh my god.
Conor PerkinsOh my god.
Caroline AimettiIt's good shit.
Conor PerkinsIt's a good spell, like where it's just like yeah, but this is a healing spell. It has the two hands and it's it's a healing spell. And that could be heal Oz, that could be heal yourself, it could also be her showing the spell because the other place that we saw the hands is in the Fiyero spell. It could also be Elphaba saying this is I use this to save Fiyero. So many reads on that scene, and they're leaving it intentionally muddy and ambiguous this way. And I'm like, because all of these reads are valid, they all work, but I don't think it's any one thing to say it's any one definitive thing, I think would do what everyone who made this film it would be doing them all a disservice.
Caroline AimettiI totally agree.
Conor PerkinsOkay, so is that all of the new stuff that was added?
Caroline AimettiI mean, probably not, but we just tap it.
Conor PerkinsWe have we're gonna keep going. What are we moving on to next?
Caroline AimettiUm, we've kind of touched it. Um, just moments that are living in our head rent-free. Well, what have we not talked about? I have a couple of things, but I mean, I could go on forever.
Conor PerkinsI mean, the big one is the closet.
Caroline AimettiThe closet.
Conor PerkinsSo, y'all, if you don't know this already, which I don't know how, but after they sing "For Good" in Kiamo Ko. The most heartbreaking scene I think I've seen in like all of cinema happens, and they're hugging, Elphaba's crying, and then she kind of pats Glinda and is like, Come on, come with me. And then she's like, No one can know that you were here.
Caroline AimettiAnd she takes her into the room ahead of where and they run up the steps, and it reminds you of when they're running on the steps at the Ozdust, and you're like, What the fuck happened?
Conor PerkinsAgain, that's the duality, people. Like, literally, it's everywhere. It should be studied, and I probably will study. I'll write a paper about it. I don't care.
Caroline AimettiWe're getting our PhDs, yeah.
Conor PerkinsUm, and then she puts her in a closet. Elphaba puts Glinda in a closet, and she goes, You stay here. And then she goes, she whispers, everything is going to be fine. I love you. And then Glinda just like takes a beat and chokes back, and then she says, I love you too. And then they shut the door, and we get this incredible shot of the two on either side with the city.
Caroline AimettiI can't I can't cry about this anymore. Bad enough.
Conor PerkinsLetting everything out. It's brilliant, it's awful, it's horrendoble and perfect, and was born out of an improvisation in rehearsal. Jon Chu didn't call cut and just let Cynthia and Ari keep going. And they were so embodied into these characters that they did this whole thing and mimed this door shutting and this moment. And he said in interviews already where he's like, it it was like some sort of divine thing, like God was showing me something that needed to be in this film through the two of them. There is too much literal magic, I believe, that is happening in and around this movie between Cynthia and Ari's voices literally lining up on wavelengths. Like, it's just there's too much fate and destiny happening in this film for me to like not believe in magic. And it's kind of like the best. And I'm gonna start crying. And like what we what we need, like this movie makes me believe in magic again because magic isn't something that is unattainable, it's created, and it's created by people who care deeply. And there are so many people who worked on this film who cared so deeply about what they were doing and understood what it meant to people, and understood what these characters mean to people and the relationships mean to people, that it created magic, like actual magic. Things started just happening, and that is why this movie is perfect, like to me. That's why I wouldn't want to change anything. Yeah, while I certainly have things that I would want to change, I wouldn't want to change anything, and I can't disrespect this by I don't know, even being too critical about it because I'm just like something else is happening, and that's kind of been true of the musical itself always is like it didn't win the Tony Award, but something else and something more meaningful was happening with this, and there's a reason why this show is still playing on Broadway. There's a reason why The Wizard of Oz is a story that we continue to tell, and it's because it's not, I don't know, whatever happens this award season, it almost doesn't matter because it's not about the awards for this story. We got something better, we got some we got magic, and we got hope. And that's worth something to me. All right. Now that I finish preaching, fuck you, bitch. So that's the closet scene.
Caroline AimettiUm I mean, um that's living in my head went free. Well, I agree with everything that you're saying, and that's how I feel. I mean, I feel exactly the same way, and like just having that the final shot be an homage to the Broadway poster. It's just like I'm gonna lose my shit.
Conor PerkinsGirl me too, grow me too.
Caroline AimettiI mean, I know that like my experience and your experience, like I know that we we're not having like individual, like unique experiences with this, but it just it just means so much to that. Yes, whatever. Like, we're all such huge fans of it. We'll always have things that we can think of, we'll always have things we can point out. But to know that this finally made it to a film and it was done with so much love and care is like such a it's so important. And like I don't know, just like in a in a time when it's like, and I think like Cynthia and Ari have talked about this when it comes to like even like the press tour, like in a time when it's so cool not to care. This has just totally like blown that apart.
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiAnd I'm so, so grateful for that. And that and and what we were talking about earlier, where it's like what what Tori from the Oz Vlog said of like they cared about the fans.
Conor PerkinsThey cared about the fans, they didn't have to. A media conglomerate like NBC Universal, they don't they don't have to give a shit about the small fans, about the influencers, about about people who have been keeping Oz memorabilia alive in a very, very like niche corner of the internet. They didn't have to reach out to them and be like, hey, you're part of this.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsBut they did because they were like, no, you're actually who this is for.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsI think that's and that's what the final shot tells us. And it's something that they've been saying the whole time of like, we've been always been thinking of the fans, we've always been thinking of the people that this has meant the world to. And I'm just like, oh, yeah, yeah, you kind of have to say that. That final shot is like, no, we were telling you the truth. Like, this was for you.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsAnd it's like it felt like someone coming through on a promise in that final shot. Like, yeah.
Caroline AimettiI did. Fuck. Um, and it's obvious. I mean, all of all of that is so evident in literally every single aspect of of this movie in both of these films, that I couldn't even begin to, I couldn't even begin to count all the ways. We would need five more hours. Yeah. But I really was, I don't know. There was something about it, it's embodied in everybody. I mean, I mean, let's for 20 seconds, like Jonathan Bailey, like, yes, he's expanded a bit in this, but like he doesn't have a ton of time to accomplish what he needs to accomplish. And God, he did, he put his entire heart and soul into that. Like the look that he gives Elphaba when it's like, it's time, you have to go, killed me, killed me. But I mean, Ari, Cynthia, Jonathan Bailey, every single person, just every single actor was just giving in everything. And I'm just like so, so grateful. Um God, I need to like get through this.
Conor PerkinsI mean, like, I I know, we're so ridiculous, so stupid.
Caroline AimettiThis is so dumb. This is literally so dumb.
Conor PerkinsFolks, we acknowledge, we know, we know, we know what this, we know what this looks like. We're not we're not that deleted.
Caroline AimettiI know. Um, but I mean, uh both of these characters, all of these characters mean so much to everybody, but I mean Elphaba especially just like means so much to so many people in so many different ways. And like the way that like Cynthia, I feel like held all of that, but also like didn't and was like, I I can't hold all of that, and I'm here to like do what I need to do. And like thinking about the fact that like she was performing "No Good Deed" alone on like an empty sound stage, and like the whole thing got CGI'd in after, and like the place that she had to go to do that. I I'm just like that is like that's like why I just like that is why I want to do this. That's why I want to be involved in this. It's like people summoning like the most concentrated version of their humanity with their imagination is like that's that's magic to me. Yeah, and that that number, I I there are no words for no good. There are no words. Um there, there's actually I I'm not even gonna talk about it because there's nothing to say. I mean, it just shook me to my fucking core. It was perfect. But I even think about I was so impacted by the trapdoor scene when when Fiyero comes back for her. Because that's pretty much what it is in this the stage show. And it can be easy maybe to see that scene as a point towards we're in the last final moments of the movie and we're just moving towards it. And the fact that she there's like a tear rolling out of her eye when she looks at him is just like to me, as such a deep fan of the show and this character, it's just like you're just really, you're really in it. Like you're really, really thinking about like what would that feel like?
Conor PerkinsShe's lived it.
Caroline AimettiThat was like everything. Yeah, that was it. That was everything that I I could have, I didn't even know that I needed from that. Cause again, it has to be like she's going to never speak to Glinda again for this life and this person. It's gotta be fucking worth it. And it is.
Conor PerkinsAnd as much as that was the moment that I feel like you needed, the moment that I needed, and was I'm so desperate to act, is all of the final stuff that we get with Glinda over an incredible score. The score lives in my head, rent-free. The score for this film is a masterpiece. How they found new themes, interwove them, introduced them to us when we didn't even realize it, teased out different pieces of other songs. But this final scene with Glinda where she's back in, she's back in her apartment. She has the bottle, and she puts it next to the same pink light from "What is this Feeling?"? And it just feels like a little piece of their dorm room right there. And then there's the grimary. What I needed was to see her go back to that tower where everything happened, where like she wishes that maybe she could have made another choice, and to just watch her go through the journey and go up the stairs again and just like feel that I needed her alone. I needed to see her alone because that's what that's what this is at the end of the day. It's Glinda lives her life believing that every person that she's ever loved the most is gone. Nessa, Boq, Fiyero, Elphaba Ba.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsAnd to just see her like feeling the loneliness and persevering through it and going up those stairs and then looking out, and like, I don't know, it's just I needed that. I needed that. And we got it. Because it was real. It's real. I'm like, what would what would Glinda be doing? Like all these questions that we ask ourselves as actors on the stage of like, what would they be doing in this time? What would they be doing here, or what would this look like? Or if we didn't have the constraints of the stage, how would they feel that? We got to do it.
Caroline AimettiYeah. The experience of Wicked being on film, I mean, has recaptured. I I remember clearly the day that I saw Wicked for the first time. I didn't sleep the night before. And I remember it had not been spoiled for me yet. So when the fucking scarecrow came out and knocked on the floor, my I was like, I I left my body. I was like, what's happening?
Conor PerkinsYeah.
Caroline AimettiAnd and this and this film experience, because of like the little the new things and the surprises and the care has allowed me to feel recapture that feeling, feel like a kid again. And and and it's funny, like speaking of that, that last, those last moments with Glinda, how crazy is it that when we got the first moments, the first images from the film, that's what we were seeing.
Conor PerkinsWe were that's what we were seeing. We were seeing the last moment of both films.
Caroline AimettiYeah, and that thinking about that really, I guess to move towards wrapping this up, which is so sad, but like really made me think about even like between me and you, just like how much we've like waited for this movie and wanted this movie and been excited for this movie, and like it's been something that has gotten us both through a lot. Yeah, and I know that that's the case for so many, so many people. And I know that like this part of it's gotta end. And but like Wicked, but Wicked never ends.
Conor PerkinsNo, no, it doesn't.
Caroline AimettiAnd listen, I got this poster the first time I saw Wicked, I was 10 years old. I literally have lived a whole ass life. I'm a grown fucking woman, and it's this is just this means the same thing to me as it always has, and like it always. Will. And like we've we've just like, as you can see, like we've had so much fun buying the merch. Where you pull up your water bottle.
Conor PerkinsWe've got the awalas.
Caroline AimettiWe got the awallas. We got the cake worthies. We got like the cops, the munchkin tin, the advent calendar. The advent calendar, the glitter jersey.
Conor PerkinsThe candles, the candles, everything. But yeah, so Wicked, it doesn't end. This part, I think, does have to end.
Caroline AimettiIt's really, it's genuinely like it is sad. I know it's so theater kid and it's so things have to end to have meaning. It's so special that for us that it was like tied to this period in our lives, which is like, even though even one year has passed, this feels like the point in their lives that Elphaba and Glinda are at in "For Good". Of like, oh, this is the we're in the real world now. And like to have be been able to like grow up with this in that way and like see actors around our age doing this is I feel so grateful that we are like at the that they're our age.
Conor PerkinsThere are age. Yes. To see that that Ariana Grande was us seeing this show.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsAnd now she gets to do it.
Caroline AimettiYeah.
Conor PerkinsI'm like, it she feels like all of us. Like seeing her do this, it feels like all of us. And that's one of the things I keep having when I watch "For Good" is I just keep seeing in my brain, it becomes meta for me where I start seeing a younger Ariana Grande and a younger Cynthia Riva. And I just like, I want to go back in time and when I tell them I'd be like, it's you two. It's it's you two. Like you get to be the ones to do it. And like the Ari who who got offered the role, who says, I'm gonna take such good care of her. And I'm like, You did. I want to go to that Ari and be like, You did. You did. We all we all loved it. We loved you. It just it makes it Wicked doesn't end. I think it just changes a little bit. And so speaking of things that are gonna change for Wicked, today, funnily enough, we finally got some confirmation from Variety. Um, they're officially reporting that Universal, Stephen Schwartz, Winnie Holzman are actively looking into ways to continue on in the Wicked Oz universe, not moving forward with Elphaba and Glinda's story per se, but something that is adjunct to the story. So I'm excited to see where the end of this era leads into a new era of Wicked and what that looks like, and being able to go into that blind because we have no idea what it's gonna look like. And in some ways, that's just as exciting to me. I cannot express what a gift it has been to be able to be a fan and to really. I mean, as a performer, there's always parts of you that are like, God, I wish I was in that film, God, I wish I was in that show, like that sort of thing. I don't have that with this because I I am just so I'm like, I am so lucky to be able to witness this, yeah, and that's enough for me, and that doesn't happen often as a performer, and that's been such a gift, but I think the biggest gift of all has been to share this with you, Caroline. Like it just like I said to you after we saw it and we were parting ways. I was like, you know, when I read Wicked in sixth grade, entirely too young.
Caroline AimettiBoth of us just sitting there just reading about animal sex clubs.
Conor PerkinsAnd when I started falling in love with the musical, there was there were people who certainly liked it who were around me, but there was no I couldn't find anybody who else who who got it who was like understanding it in the way that I was. And and it wasn't until much later when I found you that I was like, finally, like you're the you're the person. And to be able to share this with you has been like the honor of a lifetime. I'm so so lucky. So, so lucky to have my act two Elphaba, act one Glinda to my act one Elphaba, act two Glinda. I'm a fucking mess.
Caroline AimettiYou're gonna kill me!
Conor PerkinsSo thank you for being with us for this. Um, I know this is not a Disney film, but this is just as important as any Disney film has ever been, I think, for either of us. And it's a joy to be able to share it with you. It's a joy for us to have to be able to work through these emotions with each other and have people who are like, hey, I might actually want to listen to that or watch it happen. So thank you for being here with us for all of this.
Caroline AimettiAnd it's so lovely, like it's so nice to, I mean, based off of everyone's like, we want a bonus for you know, Wicked: For Good, and like that enthusiasm is so great. And it's helping us like evolve this podcast, which will obviously always be a Disney podcast, but like that's why we're like kind of like introing it in a new way of like, you know, we believe that magic gets better with age. Like, we really do believe that. Yeah. And like we just want to talk about all of the things that make in times like these, I mean all the time, but in times like these and like being in adulthood and like living in the world we're living in, like, we just want to like focus on and talk about the things that make us be like, no, no, like that's the kind of thing that makes me believe that magic is real. So it's like really special to be able to do that.
Conor PerkinsYeah. So if you liked this episode, please make sure that you hit follow or subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. Make sure that you leave a comment, leave a written review, and hit five stars. We don't want you to miss out on anything. And those comments and those reviews are one of the best things that you can do to help us get seen in search results, get pushed to other people. And then the other great thing that you can do is, you know, you can share this with someone. So find your Elphaba, find your Glinda, find your Fiyero, give this a share to them. Um, someone who you want to share Wicked with or have shared Wicked with, you know, your your good friend, your best friend. Sharing one wonderful, one not so short podcast episode. So thanks for doing that.
Caroline AimettiI can't go on. Okay, follow us on social media. Oh my God, I can't feel anymore. We are @poorunfortunatepodcast everywhere. So if this is the first time you're joining us, please really I do encourage you to follow us on social media just so we can hear from you. So we are @poorunfortunatepodcast on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, Blue Sky, find us anywhere and everywhere. DM us, comment on one of our posts, reply to a story, literally anything. We just want to talk about Wicked with you forevermore. And if you want even more Poor Unfortunate podcasts in your life, especially if you are new here and you're like, give me more. I hope you feel like that.
Conor PerkinsI hope so too.
Caroline AimettiI hope so. Um, please join the Poor Unfortunate Fam, which is in two places. It is our private Facebook group and it is our Discord server. Um, so if you want to talk about Wicked, if you want to connect with other people who love Disney and Wicked, we'll have a lengthy conversation about Wicked in there, I am sure.
Conor PerkinsAnd maybe I'll just build a channel for Wicked.
Caroline AimettiWell, like a Wicked channel. But I mean, there's nothing more us than that. So that feels right to me. Um, and it's just a fantastic way for Conor and I to know who's out there listening, what you're interested in. Like I said, is we talk about other things in this world that are magical. Like we want to hear what's magical for you and build the podcast around that. So please join us because we would love, love, love to meet you and become friends.
Conor PerkinsAnd if you're looking for any poor unfortunate podcast merch, we do have that available in our shop, the Poor Unfortunate Shop, which is poor unfortunate podcast.com/ shop. And then, as I always say, it does take us a little bit of money to keep the podcast up and running and coming to you. We do have a PayPal account. It's linked in the episode description and in our website links and our social media accounts. Truly, anything that you have to spare goes a long way for us. It could be a dollar, five dollars, ten dollars more than that. It could be a one-time donation or it could be a monthly donation. It all just goes right back into the podcast, helping us keep it free. And to all of our monthly donors, thank you so much. We would not be able to do this without you. You have changed this podcast for good. So, yeah, we'll be back next week with another episode of Caroline What's New, I believe. And then we will be back for our 100th full-length episode. So if you haven't already checked out the Poor Unfortunate Fam uh or checked out our social media for ways in which you can be a part of the 100th episode, please do that because we would love to come have you with us and celebrate. So thank you.
Caroline AimettiBig times here at Poor Unfortunate Podcast.
Conor PerkinsBig times, lots to cry about. All right. So until then, beluga sevruga!
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